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Post by La Moruna on Oct 16, 2016 22:36:46 GMT
Muh Resolve.
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 16, 2016 22:38:57 GMT
I also missed the opertunity to make a "stay determined" reference here.
But really, resolve has a lot of active uses if you realize that many actions can be supported, or even only attempted, by endurance and will.
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Post by La Moruna on Oct 16, 2016 22:41:14 GMT
Convince|Resolve to make it clear that this torture is enough, and clearly you are not going to break.
Sailing|Resolve to manage to keep the ship crew sane and sloooooowly navigate when there is no wind.
Tempt!Resolve. It says it all.
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Post by Jovis the Bo'sun on Oct 16, 2016 22:55:41 GMT
Hm... but as I read it, half those don't apply.
We have action scenes and dramatic scenes, and risks happen within the context of scenes. So these examples all appear to take longer than a scene would require, meaning they're outside of the frame of the risk mechanic, no?
Aim to wait, for hours or days, for the perfect shot to appear. Whether you move in the meantime or not.
Notice to stay awake for all three shifts of the night guard without missing a thing. Or when you inspect every square inch of a crimescene for anything and everything.
Ride for extended rides, through horrible conditions - like a storm, or archer fire. You tough it out.
Scholarship for the results of hours or weeks of tireless research.
Warfare to manage a battle tirelessly, through days and nights, supervising strategies without end for however long it's gonna take. Or to inspire a daring, if not suicidal, attack. To have everyone stand tall in a last stand. Troops will follow a charismatic leader into battle. But they will follow a resolved leader into the jaws of hell.
Your examples all work for (say) Stamina in L5R, which is used for exactly these sorts of long duration rolls. But it looks like 7th Sea isn't set up for rolls over long periods of time - instead, narrative takes over at that point. You might decide that your Resolve 4 character can complete some research sooner than the Resolve 2 guy who actually has to sleep, but if the story requires the research to complete by a particular time for dramatic reasoning, your character's resolve is going to take a back step.
Does that make sense?
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Post by La Moruna on Oct 16, 2016 23:04:13 GMT
"Okay Jack what you do?"
"I try to charm and seduce the countessa"
"Sounds good, Tempt/Panache. Doug?"
"I will keep her sister distracted, listening to all the boorish yap of her and her friends to make Jack's job easier."
"Empathy/Resolve it is."
Time is measured and only a factor in narrative sense, there is not short actions or long actions, all actions happen at narrative speed; your complains would apply just as well as if you replaced "Resolve" by any other trait.
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 16, 2016 23:13:42 GMT
There's no real hard limit on how long a situation can last. Or a risk. One roll can literally span weeks of events in your narrative. Keeping your ship on course and sailing with little to no wind for weeks is a single roll, not a roll every few hours/days, for every shift, etc.
Possible consequences and opertunties are already handled in the risk and its goals.
So yes, you can have a situation span several weeks of you following someone who travels with heavy guard, waiting for the one perfect moment to take your shot. That's one risk, one roll, with it's own possible consequences and possible opertunities.
A roll never just "does a thing". A diceroll is a means of your character to influence a given situation narratively. That situation is not bound by timeframe.
I am not sure what you are getting at with the last point, apologies. So, if you need to finish research so quickly that resolve will not come into effect, due to you having 10 minutes to figure out your villains puzzle before something happens? Well, if you do not think it fitting of the attribute for that situation, then yes, resolve should not be used. Perhaps wits for figuring it out on your own / remembering a crucial piece of information, or panache to get someone to spill the beans or hit up knowledgeable people. But keeping calm and collected and methodically work on solving it under immense pressure? Now we're right back in the game.
Last but not least, perhaps the word "scene" is throwing you off. In that case, realise that in the rulebook overview, "scene" and "situation" are interchangible. When you look at how to solve a risk of a particular situation instead of scene, it might make more sense to you from a lingual standpoint.
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Post by Jovis the Bo'sun on Oct 16, 2016 23:32:15 GMT
OK, thanks, that's helpful - particularly the idea that a "scene" can span a long time.
I guess my concern stems from the following.
This is a game about heroes doing great deeds. Resolve is definitely a heroic trait, but it's fundamentally one that's about stopping other people doing things to you. It's therefore harder to find proactive ways of doing great deeds, because you depend more on the situation creating an environment that you can endure.
La Moruna's example above is a great one - it's a neat use of Resolve, but Wits/Empathy or Panache/Empathy would work just as well (different approaches to the same problem). However, seducing the countess just doesn't work with Resolve (doggedly pursuing a woman who isn't interested isn't seduction, it's harassment); Wits or Panache both work in that case too.
The example from the book about walking through fire is another good example - there are other solutions to the problem using other traits, as the book shows.
So a Brawn 5, Finesse 5, Wits 5 or Panache 5 character can apply their trait to almost any situation; a Resolve 5 character is going to be much more limited. It's not that they will never get to use their strength, it's that they'll be able to use it much more situationally than the other four traits.
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Post by Cassidy MacFinn on Oct 16, 2016 23:39:42 GMT
This is all very interesting guys, but I can't stop looking at this:  This needs to be your for reals character picture. |
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 16, 2016 23:48:15 GMT
You are free to think that, and I personally disagree. Let's not forget it's hard(er) to apply physical attributes to mental tasks, panache to a problem that does not involve living things, or wits to perform an on-the-spot act of heroic physical prowess. Not all traits make sense for all rolls all the time, it all depends on your approach.
If you personally just can't see the use of a trait, then do not go for it. After all, your approach is based off your imagination, so if you can't imagine a trait being used, it's a self-fullfilling prophecy.
If it's however you thinking "damn, I really like resolve, but I think I'll be at a disadvantage if I pick it", I'll personally vouch for the trait as being just as useful as all the others. Heck, you can always ask me or your fellow players if they can think of an approach that could capitalize on your resolve. If you want your hero to be the person that can solve problems through sheer determination, will, and guts, this is your go-to. If that is what you want, take a leap of faith here.
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Post by La Moruna on Oct 17, 2016 5:51:18 GMT
This needs to be your for reals character picture. I have even worse sketches. You know, if you are seducing someone that is not even be remotely interested or willing, that is not seduction. There is a name for that and it would definitely give Corruption points. It is a bit pointless to compare that "this trait has less infinite possibilities than this other trait." Sure, maybe on that situation Finesse is better than Resolve. And on that situation, Panache is better than Resolve. And yet, you might end up with the doctor being asked to use Weaponry|Wits when he tries to dispatch someone quick and lethally unopposed or you end up Convince/Brawl to "recruit" a bunch of unruly sailors through a barfight. The job of getting a trait or skill to be used in a risk is 50|50 job between players of GM. One setups, other makes the ruling. If you can't setup it in your 50% of the work, then yes. That trait is definitely 50% less effective. P.S: Also, seducing the Countessa can't work with Resolve? How about this: "I wait until the party is over, and avoid all these nasty courtiers that will only block my advances. I stay out there, in the rain, outside her window and serenade her through the night if it needs be." *cue boombox* |
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 17, 2016 17:48:28 GMT
I will go ahead and open up character submissions as announced (2 days ago) now!
Please remember to include additional information according to the rules! They might have changed since you last looked, but all vital information are in bold, so it should be easy to spot!
Character approval will remain open for the entirety of the game, and the season story will start in 2 weeks from now on. Take your time!
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Post by Cassidy MacFinn on Oct 17, 2016 19:36:46 GMT
I will go ahead and open up character submissions as announced (2 days ago) now! Please remember to include additional information according to the rules! They might have changed since you last looked, but all vital information are in bold, so it should be easy to spot! Character approval will remain open for the entirety of the game, and the season story will start in 2 weeks from now on. Take your time! Should probably mention this on the forums for thewall; pretty sure people might still be checking there instead of here. |
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 17, 2016 20:10:30 GMT
Ah, I knew I forgot a place to do that! Consider that rectified!
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Post by Francois on Oct 17, 2016 22:14:08 GMT
Can we get a template character submission put up?
Just to make sure we know which details we need to include?
Do we include our proposed Character Story?
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Post by Dalai Llama on Oct 17, 2016 22:27:56 GMT
Can we get a template character submission put up? Just to make sure we know which details we need to include? Do we include our proposed Character Story? Yes, but I'm currently a bit busy/on the move, so it's likely I won't get to it today. In the meantime, most of the drafts looked ok as far as the statblock goes (could just use some bold fonts and formatting here and there). Yes, you include your story, and please also answer the points we put into the character generation rules. The story part is the most important part of the submission. EDIT: Also, don't sweat it too much. As long as I can check that your character is mechanically free of errors, and you followed the guidelines of the character generation, I'm sure it'll be fine. And even if it isn't, we'll work with you to sort it out, no harm done!  |
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